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Visa fullständig version : Gender quota, pirates version


Arvid-DE
2009-12-09, 18:33
After being dicusud in mny ways, the german prirate party will not implment a gender quota in any way.
This is because the pirates defines and understand themselves as non-dicriminating in respect to gender-relation in-between party members.

This results in the fact, that the gender of a member is not tracked at all. We can't tell how many menbers are male or female. We could only guess.

I asked Amelia Andersdotter why you did implemt a quota and receivied this answer:

A gender quota on the election list is good to show
representativeness. Statistically, women vote more for women and men
vote more for men. Also, having both women and men on the list
increases the chances of everyone feeling more "at home" on the list.
Having an all-male list would make people feel excluded.

The quota is currently implemented at 30/70, which is bad because its
not enough. 40/60 is what is generally considered to be "equal". It's
going to be implemented so that we put at least 40% but no more than
60% female candidates on our lists.

As i can see, the only reason for this quota seems to become more "electable".
Not being a friend of gender quotas at all, i am more then slightly confused.

Perheaps someone might tell me the why this decision has been established and what benefit you are looking forward to receive from it.

Greeting from Germany,

Arvid-DE

Winston Smith
2009-12-10, 00:31
As you can probably guess, the gender quota is not uncontroversial here either. I try to think of it as a trick to attract more female voters. And who can be against trying to trick people to vote for the Pirate Party? ;)

AndersLindbäck
2009-12-10, 07:57
There is also are a geografical quota by having different lists in different parts of Sweden. Given the fact that Pirate Party will only get something like 15 people in the parlament should make it possible to go to election with one nationwide list. But instead there will be six different lists for national parlament.


It's all about attracting voters and getting as many as possible to vote for the party by having candidates that attract different kind of voters.

People like to vote for candidates they know and thus there is a need to spread it out both geographical and in other ways. Having an evenly distributed list of females and males is something the newspapers love to write about here in sweden thus it's mandatory to get an equal emount of each on the lists to not get overly critizised about it.

2009-12-11, 12:42
Thank you for answering my questions. We will not have any quotas in Germany, nor even discuss that, because it is our believe, that quotas are discriminating.
The outcome is not different from any kind of institutional corruption. Good and able people become demotivated and "quota people" won't get any respect nor approval for their work, even if the results are good or, alt least, comparable.


Therefor we decided not to set any quota in action. We will try to gain votes in respect of our claims and work. We thik this ist the better way.


Arvid from Germany

Idee
2009-12-11, 17:48
In addition to the others:
The (german) PIRATEN are unanimous not do "quotas" especially "token women", because
1. most of all they can't
Due to the main interest of data avoidance/minimization PIRATEN don't collect gender data from any member.
2. even if (humor tag on, perhabs just my special humor)
How will you take evidence of male or female. You never know what people do in order to get further on. They can wear long/short hair, adopt artists name in passport or med. operational "transfers". No doubt that there will be a neutral voluntary service to do a "body check" at offical "meetings" (10.000 PIRATEN in Germany, lots of "body checks" to do ;) ). In sport games, olympic games, there are experts to make genetic tests in case of doubt to verify the gender in order that no genetic man is among woman disciplines. ;) If there is a token women introduced and someone take his/her profit *tsack* with just a single genetic test they are on the "other" side of the "quota" what a bad luck. Perhaps a pirate will just know with a genetic test which gender he/she is actually bonded to. :w00t: *lol* (humor tag off) PS: I don't want to discriminize anybody.
3. no campain effect
Of cause even in Germany there will be a headline in the (yellow) press if the PIRATEN have "token woman". But there are a lot of parties which already have "token women" and which (the parties) have not successfully fight against voter fatigue since years. In Germany the greatest party is the "nonvoters".
4. not to forget my previous speakers arguments

Rednifre-PPDE
2009-12-12, 05:41
I'm, too, are surprised by this gender quota. The vibe I'm getting from you suggests that the discussion went something like this:
A: "Hey, let's have a gender quota!"
B: "meh!"
A: "It could trick women into voting for us!"
B: "Great, let's do it!"

Also, what arvid meant when he said "it's not even being discussed" is that the discussion comes up from time to time, but the vast majority is against discriminating people simply because they happen to have the same gender as the current majority of party members.
There are many reasons why the PPDE is so opposed to gender quota:
- it's discrimination against the majority
- women who get an office while gender quotas in their favour are in place are not regarded as equally qualified as men, since the quota helped them (This is even the case if the woman is so qualified that she would have gotten the position without the quota)
- It's better to enforce equal rights at the entry point (giving all genders/sexes an equal chance) instead of enforcing it at the results (discriminating men at the entry point, so the outcome looks balanced) (Yes, this is basically just an opinion.)
- In Germany we have a "Green Party" which actually discriminates against men heavily; men only get even spots in election lists while women can run for any position, a woman majority can counter proposals etc. Even this party has only 37% women, which might perhaps indicate that maybe women, for whatever reasons, might not be that inclined to participate in politics

What I'm trying to say here is that I'm very interesting in the thought process that lead to PPSE deciding to implement a gender quota (I hope it's more than just "zOMG can i has womyn vote???"). While I'm currently very strongly opposed to this I like to think of myself as a very open minded person so I'd like to hear your argument and reconsider my position on this issue.

Billy Gellerstedt
2009-12-12, 08:40
Like some previous posters said, the gender quota is _highly_ debated, for both sides within the party at the moment.

I for one do _not_ agree that "possitive discrimination", wich any quotas are, works to strengthen the groups you want to strengthen. It can go both ways in sweden tho, many ppl are for quotas, and many are against. I dont think it will hurt us to much, nor do I think it will help us much either, its a "meh" issue, but by principle I do not agree.. =)

Fahrenheit451
2009-12-12, 11:00
I don´t see any discussion what so ever. I think it's closed down because the political korrectness movement and the feminist movement are strong in Sweden and have already infiltrated almost everything. Read all about it here; http://tanjabergkvist.wordpress.com/ and here http://genusnytt.wordpress.com/

Idee
2009-12-12, 15:54
Sorry i can't.
http://forum.piratpartiet.se/Topic189287-78-1.aspx

And "infiltrated" is a strong agressive word for any group, this will most likely "värme" heat up conversation.

For sure in Germany there is the same conflict between men and women, as i can see.
In the PIRATEN forum there are special conversation "rules" expecially for gender themes:
AG 2G (combination of men and women)
http://forum.piratenpartei.de/viewforum.php?f=195
AG Männer ("Taskforce men")
http://forum.piratenpartei.de/viewtopic.php?f=150&t=12913
AG Frauen ("Taskforce women")
http://forum.piratenpartei.de/viewtopic.php?f=159&t=12799
It was even very difficult to find nice Mods

Fahrenheit451
2009-12-12, 18:10
Of course it's a strong word, but it's true. We got "gender commisars" in almost every place. Gendercertified schools, kindergartens and institutions is something we have to look forward to and in some places already exists. Pick up a better word for it if you can find any, I can´t.

Idee
2009-12-14, 09:00
Fahrenheit451 (2009-Dec-12)Of course it's a strong word, but it's true.

Really? Infiltration (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/infiltrated) has a more or less hostile intention. I can't believe that the "gender process" in Sweden is against law. After all it has apparently a long tradition.

Fahrenheit451
2009-12-14, 09:45
Idee (2009-Dec-14)Fahrenheit451 (2009-Dec-12)Of course it's a strong word, but it's true.
Really? Infiltration (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/infiltrated) has a more or less hostile intention. I can't believe that the "gender process" in Sweden is against law. After all it has apparently a long tradition.

Like I said, I can't find a better world for it. If you understand how this work in Sweden and what I'm talking about please give me a better word for it.